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Wednesday, October 15, 2008

There is no Gray area

(Disclaimer: This is the boldest I have been in talking about Prop.8 Also, if you want your comment to remain on this page, you must identify yourself. No anonymous comments will be kept, I'm not hiding from what I believe by posting under anonymous, and neither should you.)

A lot of issues we battle everyday aren't just black and white. There isn't just a clear cut answer. They usually have different options and exceptions to the rule. There is no right and wrong because there are exceptions. For instance abortion. That is not a black and white issue. I very much do not believe in abortion, I think it is wrong, but if the life of the mother is in jeopardy then perhaps it is time to terminate the pregnancy. The death of a mother is an exception to the rule. The same things goes for war. There are pros and cons to being at war. It isn't so simple to just say yes it is right, or no it is wrong. These issue have a lot of gray area where the answer may be different for everyone.

This issue of gay marriage is not one of these issues. There is no gray area. It is very much a black and white issue. Traditional marriage is right. It is natural, ordained of God and simply a matter of biology. If we look at the long term effects of this issues you will be how devastation not passing prop 8 will be. Here is a letter stating some of those long term effects:

Proposition 8 is simple and straightforward. It contains the same 14 words that were previously approved in 2000 by over 61% of California voters: “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.”

Because four activist judges in San Francisco wrongly overturned the people’s vote, we need to pass this measure as a constitutional amendment to RESTORE THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE as a man and a woman.

Proposition 8 is about preserving marriage; it’s not an attack on the gay lifestyle. Proposition 8 doesn’t take away any rights or benefits of gay or lesbian domestic partnerships. Under California law, “domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits” as married spouses. (Family Code § 297.5.) There are NO exceptions. Proposition 8 WILL NOT change this.

YES on Proposition 8 does three simple things:

It restores the definition of marriage to what the vast majority of California voters already approved and human history has understood marriage to be.

It overturns the outrageous decision of four activist Supreme Court judges who ignored the will of the people.

It protects our children from being taught in public schools that “same-sex marriage” is the same as traditional marriage.

Proposition 8 protects marriage as an essential institution of society. While death, divorce, or other circumstances may prevent the ideal, the best situation for a child is to be raised by a married mother and father.

The narrow decision of the California Supreme Court isn’t just about “live and let live.” State law may require teachers to instruct children as young as kindergarteners about marriage. (Education Code § 51890.) If the gay marriage ruling is not overturned, TEACHERS COULD BE REQUIRED to teach young children there is no difference between gay marriage and traditional marriage.

We should not accept a court decision that may result in public schools teaching our kids that gay marriage is okay. That is an issue for parents to discuss with their children according to their own values and beliefs. It shouldn’t be forced on us against our will.

Some will try to tell you that Proposition 8 takes away legal rights of gay domestic partnerships. That is false. Proposition 8 DOES NOT take away any of those rights and does not interfere with gays living the lifestyle they choose.

However, while gays have the right to their private lives, they do not have the right to redefine marriage for everyone else.

CALIFORNIANS HAVE NEVER VOTED FOR SAME-SEX MARRIAGE. If gay activists want to legalize gay marriage, they should put it on the ballot. Instead, they have gone behind the backs of voters and convinced four activist judges in San Francisco to redefine marriage for the rest of society. That is the wrong approach.

Voting YES on Proposition 8 RESTORES the definition of marriage that was approved by over 61% of voters. Voting YES overturns the decision of four activist judges. Voting YES protects our children.

Please vote YES on Proposition 8 to RESTORE the meaning of marriage.

California Family Council

ROSEMARIE "ROSIE" AVILA, Governing Board Member
Santa Ana Unified School District

Coalition of African American Pastors

The no on 8 campaign will tell you these things are false, but if you take a look at where this lifestyle is already in practice you will see they are in fact true. In Massachusetts school children are being taught that homosexual marriage is equal to traditional marriage. This could have devastating impacts on the fundamental unit of society, the family. This is not about hate, this is not about prejudice, this is not about control, this is about protecting families and children. There is no gray area here. There is a right and wrong choice. Please register to vote in this upcoming election and cote YES on Prop. 8.

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Becky Boo said...

I have no issue with my children s teachers explaining to the class that her two mommies are just the same as her class mates families. I have no problem with the schools helping children feel at home at ease and accepted.

Its funny, its like the mere thought of a child being taught not to think that the queer is a second class citizen casts fear in certain people.

No religion should pressure what is taught in the schools. I would not be happy if the schools started teaching children to worship Jesus, Allah or Shiva. Religion has no part in public schools, or the government for that matter.

I understand that certain religions are against queers. That is why there is a separation of church and state.

If the State is going to take their values from a religion then who is to choose which religion? There are some pretty different religions out there. If Jehovah Witnesses mandated the state policies then I would never get to eat birthday cake again! Tragic -

How long ago was it illegal for black and white people to marry? (40 years maybe?). I bet the people who were against those marriages feel pretty silly looking back at the votes that they cast out of hatred.

Becky Boo said...

Mr. Random Encounters,

I am sorry for posting so much on your blog.

I originally was searching the internet. I typed in vote yes on prop 8 thinking that there would be nothing out there. I'm a newlywed, life is bliss. I clicked on the first one I saw, it was yours. I got so flustered thinking about people voting on my marriage. You are an intelligent person, thats the upsetting part. That intelligent people are going to do this to us. They are going to line up and all of California is going to vote on my marriage. My life, My rights. Its an awful feeling.

Do the right thing. Love your neighbor.

emily said...

i don't know of any religions that are "against" homosexuals. any more than they are against anyone that has issues (which is all of us). at least in my religion, we welcome everyone and we teach everyone to respect the law of chastity. we don't hate.

anyone who thinks teaching about homosexuality in schools to young children should read any child development book. this should be up to families to discuss. if they do teach it in schools i would also like them to discuss the host of special stds associated with homosexual behavior (rectal cancer being one of them). do you think this would be politically correct if same-sex marriage is legalized?

good post random. way to stand up.

yes on 8!

there is a good discussion here:

emily said...

again, this has nothing to do with hate or racism. in fact, in my experience yes on prop 8 supporters are very tolerant. while the opposition is very quick to call supporters bigots or worse (or steal signs, key cars, even beat people up, etc).

RandomEncounters said...

Becky I think it is funny you think I'm a guy! I'm not, just to clear that up.

I wish that you wouldn't see this as hatred. I do not hate you nor any homosexual. I also do not think you second class citizens. Just as you are standing up for what you believe I'm not saying that you hate heterosexual people, so you shouldn't should say the other to me. For some this may have hate involved, for the majority it is simply preserving what we think is sacred.

I also don't think religion should be in schools. I'm happy for a separation of church and state. I also don't think gay marriage should be in school. Just like you said, you wouldn't want them to be teaching about God in school, I don't either, but I also don't want them teaching gay marriage either.

Don't you think that regardless of whether marriage was legal or not you would still consider yourself married? I think you would. I think you feel that your commitment with your partner is such that you would still say you were married whether it was recognized by the state or not.

Please try to see the other side of the coin which is I am just standing up for what I believe just like you. This isn't about hate, this isn't to try and make you feel like you are less than me. I think that marriage should remain defined as between a man and woman, I think that is the happiest family situation and most beneficial. Have you ever heard the broadway musical song "Brotherhood of Man?" We are in the sisterhood of women together. I love you as my sister in the female sex together. This is not about hate at all. I am trying love all my neighbors, while standing up for what I believe.

Becky Boo said...

Yes, I will still be married to my wife even if prop 8 passes. That's not the point, I want to be married (in my heart) like my hetero sister. I want my children to be protected by the laws of marriage. Its the fact that the government will start denying marriages to their own people that bothers me. I got married before it was legal, I love my wife that much. It was not till after our wedding that our marriage became legal.

Yes we will still be married in our hearts - but we will still be second class citizens. We we be denied rights merely because the people that we love are of the same gender. Its just silly that I should be treated any differently then my heterosexual sister.
A second class citizen means that I will pay the same taxes but be denied fundamental rights.

Children were not sat down in kindergarten the day gay marriage was legalized and told that now gay people are way better. They will just treat them the same and teach tolerance of everyone, queers included. Currently at schools students are taught to treat everyone the same. Not any type of religion (thank god) Not beliefs from any particular religion.

If prop 8 passes I will feel that the government is turning a blind eye to discrimination. Who will the government pick on next? Who's rights will be stripped next? Its a slippery slope.

This is a civil rights issue. When we got married it was not to make a statement politically. We got married because we love each other. We use those rights to protect each other and our children. I know that you do not hate homos, I don't hate people of faith, or heterosexual

Its not ok for the government to deny me my rights, its not ok. It is just fendemental. I wil not be uspet if prop 8 passes because I know that the futre has to possess a world where everyone is treated equally, no matter who they are born to be. Its just the right thing.

If you want to protect the sanctity of marriage then how about taking away the right to divorce. I believe that the right to divorce is ruining the santity of marriage faster than any joy filled gay wedding. Protesters stood outside Phyliss and Del 's wedding screaming slurs at them. (the first lesbians married in ca, they are in their 80's) They were not invited, and should have been at every divorcing couples hearing.

Like you said there is no gray area, its wrong to deny rights to anyone due to the way they are born.

(sorry for assuming you are dude )